THE INMAN/OECHSLER PHONE CALL ON “RECOVERED VEHICLES” Before the Wilson/Davis affair, there was the Inman/Oechsler scandal which had a similar level of heated implications and discussions. A veteran UFO researcher Grant Cameron commented to me on February 1, 2011, that the scandal was like “the second coming” when it happened. Cameron then added that “now most people would not even know who Inman was and why this conversation was so important”. A good colleague and researcher The Hermetic Penetrator was bugging me for some time to release almost the complete audio recording between Bob Oecshler and Admiral Bobby Ray Inman. I guess I have finally capitulated :) To restore this historical controversy, I went deep into my archives while expanding my private report originally sent to several researchers back in January 2011. Thanks to private and public sources collected throughout the years, I have been able to reconstruct much of the infamous phone call, but still some parts were missing. Last month (November 2023), I was privately contacted by the “anonymous submitter” who wanted to speed up the process. “Submitter” has simulated missing segments of the phone call with a help of AI so the call could be released in a “complete” state as a journalist and public service. After considering the values of the release in a current environment of political UFO crash retrieval debates, I have finally decided to release this baby. On May 13, 1988, Admiral Bobby Ray Inman gave a keynote speech at a ceremony in University of Maryland’s Science and Technology Center related to NSA’s new supercomputer facility for the Institute of Defense Analysis, of which he was a former director. During his past career, Inman was also a director of both the National Security Agency and Naval Intelligence. He retired from government service in 1982. One of the audience members was a UFO researcher and former Goddard contractor Bob Oechsler who intended to contact Inman after reading allegations that he could possess insight into sensitive UFO information. Oechsler approached Inman after the speech. While handing him a business hard he asked if it is possible to get closer to MJ-12 (a rumored UFO government group which allegedly deals with crash retrievals within sensitive and restricted programs). Inman looked at the card which described Oechsler’s specialty in robotics and mobilized security surveillance systems. He replied with a slight smile: “Ok.” Inman has put the card in his pocket and then shook hands. Oechsler had an impression that Inman knew the exact context of the inquiry. A prominent UFO researcher Timothy Good suggested to Oeschler to reestablish the contact with Inman over the telephone. The purpose of such a call: to seek the guidance on UFO research efforts with reliable information from government sources and to gain access to supposed ET technology and retrieved crafts. Oechsler apparently also got a support to conduct such an inquiry from Admiral of the Fleet - the Lord Hill-Norton - a former British chairman of the NATO Military Committee and chief of the Defense Staff. Norton is known for his proactive UFO interest during 1990s and 2000s. Oechsler first called Inman from his home in presence of Timothy Good on July 14, 1989. Admiral was away on business on the West Coast and his executive assistant Tom King took the call. Good advised Oechsler to explain that he means to discuss SCI – Sensitive Compartmented Information. King replied he will relay the message and admiral will get back to him upon his return. The following is a reconstructed recording of a telephone conversation that took place at 8:00 a.m. EDT on July 20, 1989, between Bob Oechsler and Admiral Bobby Ray Inman. As noted, Admiral Inman was returning a call from the previous Friday. The reconstructed phone call is available here and Oechsler transcript and his original notes marked with three stars are below. Bob answered the call on his kitchen phone, saying "This is Bob Oechsler." The caller followed with the acknowledgement "This is Bob Inman." Following a brief greeting, Bob asked to be excused to go to his desk to fetch his notes, and of course flip on his tape-recording machine, which had become a matter of common procedure during his research for note-taking purposes. He presumed that the Admiral was unaware of the tape recording of the conversation. BOB OECHSLER: Yes, thank you very much for returning my call. ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: You're most welcome. BOB OECHSLER: Do you remember who I am? ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: Unfortunately, I do not, I apologize. BOB OECHSLER: OK, well we met at the University of Science, University of Maryland Science and Technology... ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: I do pull out now, thank you. *** This sudden abrupt recollection is important because it indicates that the Admiral did in fact consider our brief meeting in May of 1988 to be worthy of recollection. It was during that encounter that I asked if he would be good enough to have someone get in touch with me relative to how I could get close to MJ-12, again indicating that MJ-12 meant something to him. If MJ-12 represents anything relative to the UFO phenomenon, then the Admiral is clearly aware of the subject matter pending in this conversation, and of which he was advised by Tom King from my prior call involved a subject matter classified at least SCI (Sensitive Compartmentalized Information). BOB OECHSLER: I wanted to, for one thing, on behalf of myself I was looking for some guidance that I hoped you might be able to afford me ... ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: OK. BOB OECHSLER: ... in giving me some kind of direction in how I can assist in this project. I've been spending a great deal of time researching the phenomenon and technologically I think I might have some very interesting things to offer... ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: Uh huh. BOB OECHSLER: ...Probably not nearly as much as it was, what you probably already know. But I certainly would like to get some guidance in a number of different areas. It's probably a situation where I would like to at some point get together with you, and get an overview of what direction I might take in which I might be able to help in. On behalf of Admiral Lord Hill-Norton and Mr. Good, the best I can do there is-- I have no idea what the level of security crossing countries happens to be. And I really don't want to get too much involved in that end of it, I'll leave that to your discretion. ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: What is Peter Hill-Norton doing now? BOB OECHSLER: What is he doing right now? ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: Yeah. *** Obviously I was unprepared for this question and had no idea what Admiral Lord Hill-Norton's first name was nor what activities in which he was currently engaged. BOB OECHSLER: As far as I know he is working in the background of things. He has worked extensively with Timothy Good in a publication he has put out - Above Top Secret - which you may or may not be aware of, out by William Morrow out of New York. ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: I am not, aware of it. BOB OECHSLER: OK, in any case he is working, they are more or less working together, Timothy Good as a consultant. Admiral Lord Hill-Norton is, as the way he's expressed it to me, quite furious with his inability to gain knowledge on the issues. ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: (Muffled acknowledgement) *** Important to note that it appears that Admiral Inman with his muffled acknowledgement appears to understand the dilemma here and recognized the inferred subject matter. BOB OECHSLER: And he in fact sent Timothy Good here on a tour hoping to find out more information. There was a conference in Las Vegas at the end of June (and) the first couple days of July, where he had hoped to pick up some contact information. And I had suggested to him that the only individual I knew that possibly would be able to help him, if it was indeed possible to gain any information across country boundaries would be through you. And I suggested that that contact be made. ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: What is the general area of interest? *** Perhaps the first clue that the Admiral wants confirmation of the issues, or perhaps wants to narrow the scope of the inquiry. BOB OECHSLER: Two things, one, it's my feeling from my research that there is a dichotomy of sorts, one in which there seems to be an indoctrination program to educate the public to the realities that are involved here. The other must be a problem relating to security measures and the need-to-know level. I have the ability to control the influence and understanding and acceptability of a great, great mass of the public. I have a nation-wide radio broadcast, regular radio broadcast on the subject matter. I'm well written amongst all of the publications. I am connected with all the major organizations. I've investigated, I spent 18 months investigating, including field investigations involving the Gulf Breeze situation. I know all the internals on that. And I have focused a great deal on the technological end of the technologies, and I've studied a great deal of the things that have been going wrong along in the Chesapeake Bay, in connection with the Electromagnetic Continuity Analysis Center and with the EMP projects. *** Four Important points here. A program to indoctrinate the public. Acknowledgement that the Admiral is speaking to a journalist. ' 'Field Investigations'' in Gulf Breeze where the Joint Chiefs of Staff met (Pensacola NAS) in August 1988 amidst an invasion of UFO activity. And EMP projects which were acknowledged in the The Washington Post to be Electro-Magnetic Pulse weapons which were being developed in order to keep pace with the Soviet Zap Gun. Since the Soviets were based right there in the Chesapeake Bay where the testing was being conducted, who are we supposed to think the weapons were designed to be used against, but as President Reagan put it several times ... a force from outer space! ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: All of those are areas in which I am vastly out of date. When I made the decision to retire seven years ago, I made a conscious decision to sever ongoing ties with the U.S. Intelligence Community. I have had some exposure on limited occasions, to some areas of activity over the succeeding seven years when I did the Embassy Security Survey as a consultant to the Defense Science Board. But overwhelmingly my efforts in these seven years have been focused on industrial competitiveness ... BOB OECHSLER: Right. ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: ... on the application of science and technology in the commercial world. BOB OECHSLER: I am aware of that. ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: So, for many of the things, at least as I sort of infer from the conversation of the interest of Mr. Good and Peter Hill-Norton, they are areas where while I had some expertise, it's now, you know, seven years old. *** The Admiral seems to confirm here that the areas he infers from the conversation are areas where he at some point had some expertise which he later narrows to a period between 1979 and 1982, when he knew and worked with the Deputy Director of Science and Technology at CIA. He served as NSA director from 1977-1981 and Deputy Director of the CIA from 1981 until he retired in 1982. BOB OECHSLER: I see. ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: And the pace at which things move in that field, the odds of my being accurate are increasingly remote, in understanding those things. ***Again, to recognize the pace at which things move in that field suggests he has no reservations about the subject matter which we are discussing. BOB OECHSLER: Is it your understanding that there is a cultural dialogue going on, (long pause) today? ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: Well, I guess I'd have to ask with whom? Between what parties? (Note: Smile can be heard on the tape.) BOB OECHSLER: Well, between any of the parties that presumably are behind the technology in the crafts. ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: I honestly don't know. Have no exposure at all. So, I haven't a clue whether there are any ongoing dialogues or not. I'm trying to think who there in the Washington area that is at least much closer to the issues, that might be able to at least give you some guidance. *** His immediate response without pause indicates no confusion in the use of the term crafts and suggests again an understanding. His later commentary regarding "whether time is evolved... they are beginning to become more open to it'' suggests that he understands who is behind the technology in the crafts. BOB OECHSLER: That's what I am looking for. I'm not looking to step on any toes. I think I have some things to offer and I would like to participate. And to be frank with you, you are essentially the only one I would feel safe in getting guidance from at this point... ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: Uh huh. BOB OECHSLER: ...Based on the more I know... ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: Yeah. BOB OECHSLER: ...the more concerned I become with how I should handle what I know. ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: The Deputy Director for Science and Technology at CIA is named Everett Hineman. He is in fact getting ready to retire in the very near future. That may make him somewhat more willing to have dialogues than he otherwise would have had. When I knew him in the period seven to ten years ago, he was a person of very substantial integrity and just good common sense. So as a place to start he would clearly be high on the list. In the retired community of those who nonetheless were exposed to the intelligence business and stayed reasonably close to it, there is a retired Rear Admiral, a former director of Naval Intelligence, named Sumner Shapiro, who has been a Vice President of BDM. I think he just retired. *** The commentary regarding Hineman suggests that someone may be willing to publicize the activities which we are discussing. It seems pertinent to reiterate that the Admiral knows he is speaking with a journalist. BOB OECHSLER: VDM? ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: BDM. It's a corporation there in the McLean area. His level of competence again is very high, his integrity is very high. Whether he has any knowledge in the areas you are working on I don't have a clue, because I don't have any ongoing dialogue with him. But those are at least two thoughts for you that are there in the area where you are located. And who have a prospect of still having some currency. I don't know that they do. In my case I don't have any. *** The BDM Corporation was behind the Harrison Schmidt Conference on Cattle Mutilations in 1979. BOB OECHSLER: Do you anticipate that any of the recovered vehicles would ever become available for technological research? Outside of the military circles. ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: Again, I honestly don't know. Ten years ago, the answer would have been no. Whether as time has evolved they are beginning to become more open on it-- there's a possibility. Again, Mr. Hineman probably would be the best person to put that kind of question to. *** Recovered vehicles, previously referred to as crafts, and researching the phenomenon ten years ago had to have existed in order to have been denied access. Beginning to become more open, suggests public exposure indicating previous secrecy. BOB OECHSLER: OK. ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: Well good luck to you. BOB OECHSLER: OK, and also Louis Cabot has become quite interested in... ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: Good. BOB OECHSLER: ...some of my findings, so you may hear from him. ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: OK, he's a good man. BOB OECHSLER: OK. ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: Thank you. BOB OECHSLER: Very good, thank you for calling. ADMIRAL BOBBY RAY INMAN: Bye. BOB OECHSLER: Bye-bye. As noted in the transcript and in the recording, Inman suggested to Oechsler to contact Everett Hineman of CIA and Summer Shapiro of Naval Intelligence. As suggested, Oechsler reportedly met with Hineman at CIA Headquarters on August 10, 1989, where he presented several proposals on UFO researcher including an offer to write an independent historical review about the government’s involvement in the topic with an appropriate cleared access to all related activities. The meeting lasted for 45 minutes with a follow-up telephone conversation which happened on September 1, 1989. Heineman declined any potential cooperation and said that after some checking, it was established there will no need for anything along previously discussed topics. The two meetings with the former director of Naval Intelligence, appeared to be more productive. During a first meeting in late 1989, Shapiro allegedly gave some indication about his knowledge on UFO crash retrievals/transporting. Everything changed during a second meeting on June 21, 1990, which abruptly ended and Shapiro decided to cut any further contact with Oechsler. In a follow-up correspondence, Admiral Inman also decided to abort all ties with Oechsler. Admiral’s executive assistant Tom King sent him a phone message stating that any public discussion of the information which Oechsler had acquired from the former intelligence community directors would be in violation of national secrecy laws. Inman also subsequently stated that he thought that the original phone call was actually about “underwater vehicles”, and not about UFOs which led to even more controversy. There are also other allegations that are connecting Inman with a sensitive UFO knowledge, but these are beyond the scope of this short release. The readers are encouraged to get a wider picture of these events through listed sources below. Alien Contact: Top-Secret UFO Files Revealed – by Timothy Good Alien Update - by Timothy Good Loose Threads – report by Daniel Elizondo & The Hermetic Penetrator A Conversation with Bob Oechsler - Part 1 - h/t via Lee Nicholson A Conversation with Bob Oechsler - Part 2 - h/t via Lee Nicholson A Conversation with Bob Oechsler - Part 3 - h/t via Lee Nicholson Another Inman’s denial on UFO Crash Retrievals – March 2021 Inman’s email reply to @rgh_ufos The reconstructed Inman/Oechsler phone recording has been provided here for a historical reference and expanded research - mostly targeted towards journalistic colleagues and fellow researchers. DISCLAIMER Many thanks to good colleagues and researchers without whom this report would not be possible; Grant Cameron, Lee Nicholson, The Hermetic Penetrator, and Omega Point. Compiled by Giuliano Marinkovic - December 6, 2023 -
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